Firstly, credit where it is due and all that, they must have put in a lot of work to prepare for the session. Papers and proposals to be discussed and voted on related to each of the areas of the survey. It was disappointing that so few parents were actually there. If that was all of the parents in the whole school who volunteered to be there then that is a real shame.
I gather there was some confusion also as to what was expected of those attending - did they represent their classes or not? I also gather there was some confusion over the role of parent governors and were they supposed to represent anyone or not. I think there was some good discussion overall and hopefully some helpful steers to the Governors. I wonder how they will represent this information though come the full parents open evening. I hope that is better attended! Hopefully it will be well publicised.
What perhaps was more interesting were the things that were not discussed. The issue of staff and families moving on was glossed over, with a few glaring inaccuracies. The conduct of the head-teacher in particular seemed to be a no-go zone. This is a real shame as this is where the heart of the current crisis lies. If the Governors are not up for talking about this then we are stuck in a no-mans land. The school will not be able to move on and hurt and frustration will remain.
An interesting example was the discussion on making the school a friendlier and more inviting place. Lots of options were discussed, but there was no mention things like
- a head-teacher who comes out to parents after school, chats with them and is interested in them and their children
- parents being able to drop their children off in the playground
- parents being able to have brief chats easily with class teachers i.e. without having to make appointments
Surely these would be easier than some of the ideas being discussed, and they have all worked very well in the past!
36 comments:
Just for light relief ( because I'm in a frivolous mood)
Who said this " I'm not a librarian, but I am A HIGHLY TRAINED PROFESSIONAL"
Gives me a chuckle every time.
Anyone else got any quotable quotes?
I have heard a few things about this meeting. I was actually told by one of the parent reps that she was too scared to support what another parent rep had said because Mrs C was there. She felt that if Mrs C hadn't been there, discussion would have been more honnest and open. I also get the feeling from what she said, that in general the meeting went well - I just hope some good comes out of it.
Naturally Mrs. Cleugh was there.The governors, Mrs. Cleugh and the Diocese of Westminster are as thick as thieves. Parents are being patronised by any pretence of communication. They only agreed to this meeting because they were in a corner. Openess and real authentic communication is very far from the agenda of these governors. Power and priviledge is very appealing to the human psyche. They prefer to treat us like children and keep us at arms length.It was ever thus. This is why countries have had to fight for liberty and democracy. It doesn't come naturally.
I think it's incredible that the governors and diocese are holding together on this -- particularly the diocese as they are aware of the trail of destruction left at previous schools. Why are they backing this one woman at the expense of so many other good Catholic families? Someone said to me recently that "Catholics hold together", that may be, but the families at the school are all Catholic as well? Don't they deserve backing?
"Catholics hold together"
Like the Freemasons then.
To the LSA's ( mostly ladies of a certain age, variety of professional backgrounds etc)On the topic of appropriate clothing:
"No bum's, boob's and bellies"
Priceless
Why aren't parents allowed to drop off the children in the playground?
* wraps himself or herself in a flag or tradition and usurps others' objectives, thereby nurturing compliance, reverence, deference, endorsement and obeisance; however, such veneration and allegiance is divisive, being a corruption for personal power which exhibits itself through the establishment of a clique, coterie, cabal, faction, or gang"
Have you seen the letter from Bishop Stack that was in the children's school bags today? I guess the Diocese tired of being copied into letters from complaining parents. Ha!
The question is who is the Head Bullying? Is this a personality clash issue with individuals?
Secondly I would rather bullies were frightened of her so they can appreciate what it is like to be on receiving end. Would you like you child to be bullied? No I guess not. What I see is that she keeps these types of children under control.
The other question is if majority of parents are happy what is it that makes the rest unhappy? Understand some of them not happy about changes and missing teachers they have formed a bond with - But a change is constant in this life. How can you be sure the next Head want be worse than this one. Give the woman a chance -not an easy job. Parents who have issues go and speak to her and make it work for yourself and address your personal needs.
What is the issue with wanting to go in the Playground?
Some parents love it that the children are received rain, sun, and wind by teachers at the gate. They don't stop parents from going in if a child is distressed well I have not been refused. A teacher supervises the play area no different to playtimes. It would be a chaos with all the mothers and their buggies in the playground with all due respect. It is good to mix and have opportunity to talk etc but they can't please us all.
Ask the children if they mind?
The head is bullying any person who simply questions her actions or suggests any kind of alternative. She does not neccessarily select only the stronger community members to bully and harrass but, like most bullies, will often select those who are weaker and unable to stand up for themselves. This IS a problem as such behaviour contributes to an environment of fear and anxiety amongst the staff which WILL filter down to the children. Also, if the children see or even sense that the head of the school chooses to behave in such a way they will then learn that bullying is an acceptable way to get what you want. Do you really want your child to learn that this is a good way to get through life? Allowing bullying, at any level, to occur in a school is unacceptable and should never happen. Children learn much better behaviour patterns by being shown care and consideration towards one another. In my opinion Mrs C is unable to teach children in this way!
How is she bullying the people who question her actions? What actions have they questioned and how has she responded? This point has still not been answered by anyone. Has she picked on individual children - in what way? I think a blog is a great idea but it seems at present to be just an arena for people to let off steam and unsubtantiated and generalised accusations. I fully believe there is 'no smoke without fire' but I haven't suffered at her hands (yet?!) and so I find it hard to really get a grasp on what is going on.
This may be a good time to point out that there is a whole school meeting of the Governors on May 10. Anyone with concerns should make a point to attend.
31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you
Ehpesians 4, 31-32
To the commenter 2 above ( who posted at 2.05pm). Yes, she has picked on individual children. I previously mentioned my childs account of a very unpleasant episode involving one child being hotly chastised infront of the whole class. For a seven year old to be hauled over the coals by the head in full view of your peers, well, it's not just the miscreant who is being terrified. There are more accounts I am not willing to share in this forum.One involves two reception class children. You don't have to look very far to hear them.
Bullying is a very complex and often subtle art. Bullies cultivate loyalty and support in some areas the better to isolate their victims.
For some individuals, unless it is happening to them or their children they just don't take it seriously or even believe it at all. I believe the accounts of being bullied. I have seen this kind of thing operating before in the workplace. In addition, there are the very very troubling and sad accounts of people at her previous schools. For them, they never recieved any kind of closure, despite going to the bishop, the press, their MP and others. The diocese closed ranks and covered everything up. Please don't assume all these people were just malicious. It's hugely draining to take on something like that. I have seen much of the correspondence. It would make you weep.
For me, this an issue of social justice and truth. You may not feel as concerned about what is happening to other people as I do. I don't think you are alone. I think part of the success of the bully depends on that I'm afraid. It was ever thus.
I also believe however, that like it or not, and whether you,or your children, are actually conscious of feeling the effects of this behaviour, the effects are however still there.
Be assured that this is not at all about the head taking a hard line with badly behaved and bullying children. This is absolutely not the case. Although it is very much how she likes to present it. It's all spin I'm afraid.
Again, I don't feel able to give you all the information in this forum. Nor should I have to. You are a grown adult and if you are sufficiently concerned you can do your own digging just like I did. The information is all out there. You just need to be willing to hear it.
May 3, 2007 2:45 PM
To the Ephesians 4 commenter:
"Is this not the kind of fast I have chosen: To loosen the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the opressed free and break every yoke?" Is 58:6
And also:
"Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbour" Eph 4:25
We have tried to speak truthfully about our concerns. I see no evidence whatsoever of "brawling" etc. I feel that our attitude and actions has been above reproach, but we have met with dissembling and outright untruths.
Oh Dear
"make it work for yourself and address your personal needs."
Yes, for many, if not most,that is their bottom line.It's not mine. I believe that attitude is common in the world but it is certainly not congruent for a Christian.
( pardon me if my judgementalism is showing)
reply to 2.05 poster
if you have never suffered at her hands I presume you must be a
school govenor. Are the governing
body not being led by the man
from the diocese.
All stick together he told you at
last meeting.
Why not stay at home with your families. There is no point attending meetings if you have nothing to say.
Thank you 2.47pm poster for clarifying. The telling off of the 7 year old does sound wholey inappropriate. In reply to the other comment, I am not a govenor - just new to the school and so dealings with Mrs C are limited. Yes, I am an adult and can 'dig around'and I certainly have but even as a parent of a child in reception, have heard nothing of the undescribed incident there. Also, digging around has its problems - half stories and chinese whispers. Who ever posted the reply to me seems very well informed and hopefully such a person/persons are keeping a dossier of 'evidence'. Her past is worrying but I guess that anyone with a current grievance against her cannot rely on past events.Maybe if a comprehensive body of current events is got together then it can be put forward wherever is appropriate - in a formal document to the govenors/LEA/diocese. If it is impossible to get things out in the open at meetings where tempers could be lost and emotions run high then maybe a written document may be best. I think that those who are fully in the know and obviously feel v strongly must appreciate that to those of us who are not so well informed it is all a bit bewildering.
Commenter at 11.50am said:
"I would rather bullies were frightened of her so they can appreciate what it is like to be on receiving end."
Is this a statement in support of the heads methods?
'You may not feel as concerned about what is happening to other people as I do.'
I don't think it helps to be so self-righteous. I think that maybe some people are not as concerned as you simply because they do not have all the facts at their disposal to make an informed judgement.
As a relative of an ex St Vincents family and a mother myself I can honestly say that I believe the situation at St Vincents is horrific. I have worked in education and know first hand how difficult it can be to remove a headteacher from a school. They are protected by so many. What everyone needs to remember is that these children only get one opportunity to receive their primary education, it will impact on the rest of their life, secondary school and university. Please group together and end this oppression and bullying, yes it is bullying, and stop this woman destroying children's lives, the stress for the families and the terrible experience they are having in the name of a catholic education!
The unbelievable series of events………
What can I do and what can we do as a community? Should we……... Write to the LEA? If so who in the LEA? Write to the Dioceses? Who in the Dioceses? Write to the Bishops and Cardinal? Should we write to our MP (I believe people in Hillingdon did). May be if everybody wrote a letter it might make a difference.
Can someone in the know please post this info?
As this is at least the second if not the third time that this has happened surly if enough concerned parents wrote to the LEA they would have to act. I believe it only takes six complaints from parents to OFSTED to force an investigation. Is this another option? Then if the LEA still ignore the situation they will be accountable along side the Dioceses. My fear is that until there is a casualty no one will listen. If St Mary’s in Hillingdon had been a state school I believe the LEA would have acted swiftly, unfortunately for us they did nothing and now the problem is ours. The truth needs to be told sooner rather than later……….for the sake of the children.
And what about the letter from the Bishop? Is the Diocese finally waking up to the fact that there is a serious problem and as for trusting the Head ………Does she have a good track record?
Just because you haven’t seen both sides of this split personality doesn’t mean that is doesn’t exist. If you are useful or part of the ‘master plan’ you will only see one side. You may be an important person in the Diocese or LEA or be a governor of the school; you may be a parent that moves in the same circles or be a parent or member of staff that can be encouraged to take certain actions. On the other hand if you are a parent or member of staff that dares to ask questions you will see the other side. Why don’t you find out what really happened at her last school St. Mary’s in Hillingdon. How many of the original staff were there left after two years and why did they leave? How many parents withdrew their children and why? How many Governors and Chair of Governors resigned and why? I believe even the PFA had a complete turnover of members. Why do you think so many staff left St. Vincent’s last year and are still doing so? And why have so many parents withdrawn their children from this school? Do you honestly think that all these people that have seen and experienced first hand the other side of her personality are making it up? We all have better things to do, but I suspect that like me they have a conscience and where an adult can walk away from an intolerable situation a child in school cannot.
They gave her a chance in Hillingdon and I believe they are still paying for it.
From the Diocese of Westminsters education website:
"No-one likes criticism but an open organisation will always be willing to listen to concerns and anxieties and be ready to learn from them if appropriate. In a school, most concerns are likely to be expressed by parents of its pupils, though some may come from pupils themselves, parishioners, or from other interested parties such as neighbours or users of the premises.
In a Catholic school, parental concerns are of particular importance. As the first educators of their children, parents have a duty to take an active interest in their school. “Since parents have given children their life, they are bound by the most serious obligation to educate their offspring.” (Gravissimum Educationis). To this end, “there must be the closest co-operation between parents and the teachers to whom they entrust their children to be educated. In fulfilling their task, teachers are to collaborate closely with the parents and willingly listen to them.” (Can.796) In a Catholic School, therefore, dealing with parental concerns will be an intrinsic part of the school’s ethos and mission. In addition, terms of reference for governing bodies now include the legal obligation to “be open about the decisions they make and the actions they take and in particular ........ to explain their decisions and actions to interested parties”. (The Education (School Government) (Terms of Reference) (England) Regulations 2000). Thus a climate of openness and partnership is essential.
Nearly all concerns or questions can be resolved very quickly and informally if parents feel able to voice them as soon as they arise. Obviously, the more information the school gives to the parents the less scope there is for misunderstanding. As part of this information, parents could be told that feedback is always welcome and that, therefore, they are warmly encouraged to voice any concerns straightaway..."
I would like to address any governors, or indeed Mr Barber and Mr Pittendreigh of the Diocese should they be reading this. How does the response of the governors to a perfectly legitimate request for a meeting with the governors ( prior to this an AGM was held every year with no ballyhoo)accord with the sentiments expressed here?
Every attempt was made to make some contact with the governors through every legitimate means. Every attempt was avoided or fudged. The diocese flew in and advised the governing body AGAINST meeting with parents.
It is most regrettable and unhappy that concerns have to be aired in this way. It seems to me that it is a symptom of frustration. The people who are frustrated do not seem to me to be professional malcontents. I think they are anguished and dismayed to find themselves in this position. They have traversed all the proper avenues and found them all to be blind alleys.
Had the governors and the diocese really honoured the spirit of the statement above, I think none of this would have been necessary.
Below are the KS2 results for 2005 from the DFES website. Please note that in this very long list of Ealing borough primary schools, only ONE other school has scored as highly as St Vincents. I looked for this online, because this was my sons final year at St Vincents and at the time the schools excellent performance was being celebrated. How quickly we forget. I simply cannot fathom how Bishop Stack can tell us with any credibility that there were concerns over the QUALTY OF EDUCATION offered at St Vincents. I set no great store by SATs, but there is no other yardstick that I am aware of. What possible educational concerns could the diocese have had? This just doesn't "STACK" up at all ( pardon the pun)
Home > Regions > London > Ealing (LAs)
[KS2 Results | Improvement | Background | Absence | KS1-KS2 VA]
ACHIEVEMENT AND ATTAINMENT TABLES 2005: KEY STAGE 2 TEST RESULTS
Year on year comparison: Ealing
Aggregate of test percentages
for Level 4+
2002 2003 2004 2005
LA Average 237 236 234 238
England Average 234 234 237 240
Allenby Primary School NA NA NA NA
Beaconsfield Primary and Nurse... 230 195 225 219
Berrymede Junior School 268 262 281 274
Blair Peach Primary School 263 255 258 267
Brentside Primary School 200 269 286 273
Christ Church Church of Englan... 268 269 254 281
Clifton Primary School 237 224 244 234
Coston Primary School 257 231 214 232
Dairy Meadow Primary School 264 268 272 275
Derwentwater Primary School 213 241 260 237
Dormers Wells Junior School 195 223 215 197
Downe Manor Primary School 231 277 262 266
Drayton Green Primary School 224 200 159 191
Durdans Park Primary School 215 238 232 222
East Acton Primary School 236 192 242 221
Edward Betham Church of Englan... 267 272 270 244
Featherstone Primary and Nurse... 238 205 207 200
Fielding Primary School 241 253 265 265
Gifford Primary School 226 186 198 166
Grange Primary School 196 247 220 242
Greenwood Primary School 274 232 230 252
Hambrough Primary School 272 273 269 263
Hathaway Primary School 251 223 231 250
Havelock Primary School 219 235 206 231
Hobbayne Primary School 240 264 256 252
Horsenden Primary School 253 255 243 252
John Perryn Primary School 200 197 145 169
Lady Margaret Primary School 273 229 254 234
Little Ealing Primary School 251 270 274 266
Mayfield Primary School 233 251 270 253
Montpelier Primary School 270 258 242 256
Mount Carmel Roman Catholic Pr... 269 286 276 272
North Ealing Primary School 289 258 282 284
North Primary School 272 264 268 295
Oaklands Primary School 198 217 258 243
Oldfield Primary School 179 238 254 236
Our Lady of The Visitation Rom... 285 274 277 275
Perivale Primary School 268 255 287 263
Petts Hill Primary School NA NA NA NA
Ravenor Primary School 197 225 192 210
Saint John Fisher Roman Cathol... 288 277 282 246
Saint Joseph Roman Catholic Pr... 262 262 262 242
Saint Raphael Roman Catholic P... 277 253 291 268
Saint Vincent Roman Catholic P... 284 273 267 295
Selborne Primary School 226 207 239 213
Southfield Primary School 213 198 226 256
St Anselm Roman Catholic Prima... 175 168 197 203
St Gregory's Roman Catholic Pr... 297 286 293 286
St John's Primary School 188 178 134 133
St Mark's Primary School 271 230 282 248
Stanhope Primary School 245 219 247 206
Three Bridges Primary School 205 219 170 217
Tudor Primary School 170 213 137 219
Vicar's Green Primary School 150 231 170 271
Viking Primary School 237 171 174 190
West Acton Primary School 211 212 257 224
West London Academy NA NA NA 223
West Twyford Primary School 243 210 240 267
Willow Tree Primary School 168 206 186 193
Wolf Fields Primary School 235 192 220 238
Wood End Junior School 255 232 212 232
Special Schools
Castlebar School 0 0 0 0
John Chilton School NA NA NA NA
Mandeville School NA NA NA NA
Springhallow School NA NA NA NA
And just for good measure, the value added score for that year was 98%
Home > Regions > London > Ealing (LAs)
[KS2 Results | Improvement | Background | Absence | KS1-KS2 VA]
ACHIEVEMENT AND ATTAINMENT TABLES 2005: KEY STAGE 2 TEST RESULTS
Value Added: Ealing
Value Added
Measure Coverage
LA Average 100.8
England Average
Allenby Primary School School had no eligible pupils in 2005
Beaconsfield Primary and Nurse... 99.3 81%
Berrymede Junior School 101.1 94%
Blair Peach Primary School 101.9 87%
Brentside Primary School 102.6 80%
Christ Church Church of Englan... 100.6 96%
Clifton Primary School 102.3 79%
Coston Primary School 100.9 86%
Dairy Meadow Primary School 101.8 96%
Derwentwater Primary School 100.2 98%
Dormers Wells Junior School 100.1 82%
Downe Manor Primary School 102.3 83%
Drayton Green Primary School 99.3 78%
Durdans Park Primary School 99.4 89%
East Acton Primary School 99.9 86%
Edward Betham Church of Englan... 99.4 93%
Featherstone Primary and Nurse... 101.1 79%
Fielding Primary School 100.7 95%
Gifford Primary School 98.8 83%
Grange Primary School 100.7 91%
Greenwood Primary School 101.1 91%
Hambrough Primary School 101.7 88%
Hathaway Primary School 100.9 93%
Havelock Primary School 102.1 83%
Hobbayne Primary School 101.5 90%
Horsenden Primary School 100.5 89%
John Perryn Primary School 99.8 67%
Lady Margaret Primary School 100.7 99%
Little Ealing Primary School 101.4 95%
Mayfield Primary School 101.2 84%
Montpelier Primary School 101.1 87%
Mount Carmel Roman Catholic Pr... 101.1 98%
North Ealing Primary School 101.5 86%
North Primary School 104.4 86%
Oaklands Primary School 101.4 93%
Oldfield Primary School 100.1 87%
Our Lady of The Visitation Rom... 102.1 98%
Perivale Primary School 102 95%
Petts Hill Primary School School had no eligible pupils in 2005
Ravenor Primary School 99.1 93%
Saint John Fisher Roman Cathol... 99.7 90%
Saint Joseph Roman Catholic Pr... 100.9 95%
Saint Raphael Roman Catholic P... 100.8 98%
Saint Vincent Roman Catholic P... 101.6 98%
Selborne Primary School 99.8 87%
Southfield Primary School 100.5 88%
St Anselm Roman Catholic Prima... 98.4 83%
St Gregory's Roman Catholic Pr... 101.9 88%
St John's Primary School 98.5 63%
St Mark's Primary School 101.3 97%
Stanhope Primary School 100.4 80%
Three Bridges Primary School 99.5 90%
Tudor Primary School 99.8 94%
Vicar's Green Primary School 105.9 63%
Viking Primary School 100.1 83%
West Acton Primary School 101.7 87%
West London Academy 100.3 93%
West Twyford Primary School 100.0 93%
Willow Tree Primary School 99.4 81%
Wolf Fields Primary School 100.7 96%
Wood End Junior School 99.8 92%
Special Schools
Castlebar School 99.7 91%
John Chilton School < <
Mandeville School < <
Springhallow School < <
Please know this. I know the history of Mrs C from Hillingdon. Her reputation spread through the area. St Mary's is a state school. She undid all of the good work that the previous head had achieved. My family member who has removed her child from St Vincent's was a staunch supporter of the school and raised hundreds of pounds through her efforts on the PFA. She is a level headed professional woman who would never remove her child because of tittle tattle and gossip. She removed them because she knew that damage was being done and that the pastoral environment of the school no longer existed. Write to your LEA, they have to act if they get enough complaints. I am confident that they know what is going on but need enough evidence to act. Please don't let the children suffer any longer.
To response to Clare's comments, I believe the concerns about the quality of education at St. Vincent's stem from the change in leadership. The last Ofsted report was quite clear on this point.
Having said that, I would be more than willing to risk another change of head. The atmosphere at the school is oppressive. The feeling is that you need to be careful what you say as a snitch is hiding around every corner, ready to report you to the enemy.
Thank you w3 parent, but if I'm not mistaken, the Bishops letter also stated a specific concern about education. Perhaps I'm adrift on this point?
A copy of the last Ofsted report online:
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/reports/pdf/?inspectionNumber=276616&providerCategoryID=16&fileName=%5C%5Cschool%5C%5C101%5C%5Cs5_101926_20060529.pdf
To the Ephesians 4 commenter on May 3, 2007 2:42 PM
You ought not misuse scripture in this way to put yourself in the right.
Sadly, as far as brawling, malice and slander are concerned the governors do not come away from this covered in glory.
Some highly experienced and well respected staff and members of the community have been maligned.
The PFA had to endure a weird and hostile meeting, uncharacteristically overpopulated by governors. A verbal attack was launched on a PFA member by governor Mrs. MacNair after said member asked a perfectly reasonable and polite question ( The discussion had been about the sunshades, prior to this for many months Mrs Cleugh delayed any decision by saying that 'her'governing body needed to discuss it. Ann Blyth, asserted quite wrongly at this meeting that up until this point they had had no 'hard' information, facts, figures etc, this was untrue.The PFA memeber simply asked for an assurance that a decision would indeed be made. An entirely legitimate question given the months of delay.)
Before the question was fully out of the mouth of the PFA member Mrs. MacNair started shouted "Thats offensive!" and more in that vein. It seemed as though she had been so primed and agitated about the behaviour of the PFA that she came to the meeting eager to strike.
Subsequent to this Mrs. Cleugh sent a letter to the PFA complaining of being on the recieving end of "tirades of abuse" in PFA meetings. This was a breathtakingly false and audacious claim. Perhaps some of the governors have been truely persuaded by such. This, in my opinion, is little more than malicious slander.
In addition, forgiveness is not at issue here. What is, is the refusal to deal with offence, upset, questions etc.
Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you
Ehpesians 4, 31-32
Dear Ephesians 4 anonymous, I may have misunderstood you. Perhaps you are addressing this to the governing body?
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